Curse

gabrial heart · Dec 13, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Might even be able to do it faster with a vengful rit as the 605 and the 2 monk backline with sb and smites.

gabrial heart · Dec 13, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansiac

Tried this run a few times, both as tank, smiter and M/N.
(Thx alot Quarx, for showing me this build, and for beeing so helpful, finally got the tanking sorted out)
I dont like the word, lucky, but it seems to be the only way to actually complete the quest.
Fighting the hughe mob at the cave, i always get interrupted or loose Mantra(and all energy along with it) and end up dead.
Im currently working on a infinite Shadow Tank (yes, its possible) and i have to say its the easiest tanking ive ever done in Ravenheart Gloom. Only problem is at the cave.
For some reason i get my SF ripped there(by some skill, i cant figure out what)
Anyway, my SF-(shadow form, if you didnt get that) build can easily clear the map without any deaths on any of my party-members.
I came up with this idea yesterday and tried it 3 times(was a bliss until tanking at the cave)
I still need more time to figure out WTF is happening at the cave.
Ill post the entire build when i have it sorted out.

THX again for a great post.

GL everyone!

I can only guess, but sf is an enchant and without sb theres something stripping it? Mesmer or necro maybe?

Akane · Dec 13, 2006, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Etrik, thanks for the great tips on MS and the Earthbind suggestion.

Does it makes any difference if the Ele's bomb and then back off from aggro range? I'm not sure how the damage counting aspect of newer aggro rules really work. Does the damage counter restart if the ele's back off for say 10 sec. after unloading their devestation.

Hansiac - everlasting SF - cool!
It might be a derv ripping your enchant. Winds of Disenchantment is cast on self, not target. Do you use a cover enchantment for SF? Rending Aura will also rip an enchant if you hit the derv with a melee weapon (though probably not the case for your tank).
It might be a mes using Sig of Disenchantment.
It might be a sin using Expunge Enchantments.
SF isn't quite invincible, cover enchant should work.

Akane · Dec 13, 2006, 06:31 PM // 18:31

My son was showing me a cool/freaky PVP build that could really work for the Ele's...

It involves using Arcane Mimicry to capture Ele Attunement off a character (most likely the smiter in this case).

The objective is to use Ele Attunement and Fire Attunement along with Arcane Echo to spam the beejeebers out of Searing Flames.

With decent points in Energy Storage and QZ up, Ele Attunement could easily be kept up indefinitely.

So the choice for the Ele's becomes monk secondary for Ebond or mes secondary for double-Arcane.

Other options could open up that can utilize the smiter's potential to carry a "spare" elite (no elite needed for smite part of build).

bugsy3861 · Dec 13, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I updated the build on the 1st page. I just finished it and it was my easiest run yet. Purge signet is the key to success. Everyone that has a slot free to use it (e/mo's, smiter, and ranger), should. The cave is soooo much easier. The luck factor has been taken out of the equation.

Good luck----Quarx Mooncloak

hansiac · Dec 13, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Etrik, thanks for the great tips on MS and the Earthbind suggestion.

Does it makes any difference if the Ele's bomb and then back off from aggro range? I'm not sure how the damage counting aspect of newer aggro rules really work. Does the damage counter restart if the ele's back off for say 10 sec. after unloading their devestation.

Hansiac - everlasting SF - cool!
It might be a derv ripping your enchant. Winds of Disenchantment is cast on self, not target. Do you use a cover enchantment for SF? Rending Aura will also rip an enchant if you hit the derv with a melee weapon (though probably not the case for your tank).
It might be a mes using Sig of Disenchantment.
It might be a sin using Expunge Enchantments.
SF isn't quite invincible, cover enchant should work.

I was also thinking that it was a Derv or Mesmer skill (it happens when those Mind Tormentors shows up, and they are Mesmers)
First thing i did after testing this build for the first time, was to bring a cover(i used Way of Perfection, because of the duration and recharge-time)
Still lost my SF.
I might have been too late to cover SF after recasting it(or simply forgor it).
Hard to find people who are willing to test, and they usually leave after first attempt(making me too frustrated to start over)
Ill try another test today and pay extra attention on casting the cover after i recast SF.

thx for reply.

Akane · Dec 14, 2006, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Quarx, Purge Signet is perfect for the smiter because they generally have zero energy and PSig will still remove everything at zero (without creating negative energy). With QZ up it's every 10 seconds. If others carry it, it can instantly wipe their energy out (-10 per hex or condition).

If all they're doing is staying back and waiting to kill off the dregs, that's probably OK. If they need more energy, you may consider restricting Purge Sig to the smiter and possibly the bonder.

Another choice, as mentioned earlier, is having the smiter spam the elite Sig of Removal. One hex and one condition removed every 3 seconds (with QZ up), and then the purge Sig thrown in every 10 seconds (with QZ up). That should be more than enough for your hex and condition. My only concern would be having the smiter spending so much time in the aggro zone.

Here's an idea...
Have the Ele's use Arcane Mimicry to copy 2 different elites.
During a defensive phase, they copy Sig of Removal from the smiter and spam that.
During an offensive phase, they copy Ele Attunement from the bonder and use that to help spam the crap out of Searing Flames. (They could also try adding Arcane Echo to really go nuts on SF)

The bonder can afford to carry a dormant elite that the Ele's can utilize.

Akane · Dec 14, 2006, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Oh, the bonder could also use Arcane Mimicry to run a backup of Spell Breaker on the tank, or to spam Sig of Removal. How's that for versatility?

Only drawback is BR would be lost with the bonder switching from Nec to Mes secondary.

Etrik · Dec 14, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansiac

Tried this run a few times, both as tank, smiter and M/N.
(Thx alot Quarx, for showing me this build, and for beeing so helpful, finally got the tanking sorted out)
I dont like the word, lucky, but it seems to be the only way to actually complete the quest.
Fighting the hughe mob at the cave, i always get interrupted or loose Mantra(and all energy along with it) and end up dead.
Im currently working on a infinite Shadow Tank (yes, its possible) and i have to say its the easiest tanking ive ever done in Ravenheart Gloom. Only problem is at the cave.
For some reason i get my SF ripped there(by some skill, i cant figure out what)
Anyway, my SF-(shadow form, if you didnt get that) build can easily clear the map without any deaths on any of my party-members.
I came up with this idea yesterday and tried it 3 times(was a bliss until tanking at the cave)
I still need more time to figure out WTF is happening at the cave.
Ill post the entire build when i have it sorted out.

THX again for a great post.

GL everyone!

Earth Tormentors use Rending Sweep, but it should miss. I've checked the skill on all mobs in Ravenheart Gloom, and none of them can get through SF. Unless, of course, you went /monk secondary. Fingers of Chaos removes enchantments from monks, even secondaries. So go A/D or A/P when you shadowtank. Or it could be the Paragons using Stunning Strike before you manage to recast it. If you're casting it *before* it runs out, it can only be FoC and your monk secondary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

I can only guess, but sf is an enchant and without sb theres something stripping it? Mesmer or necro maybe?

Nothing except non-targetted spells/skills can strip SF. 'All spells against you fail' means you can't cast say.. Desecrate Enchantments. Not that that would remove SF anyways, but meh. And Mesmers have no un-targetted enchantment removal skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Etrik, thanks for the great tips on MS and the Earthbind suggestion.

Np. Just remember to use EB on a primary Ritualist. 10 foes getting KD'd means alot of health loss, so that Rit needs maxed Spawning Power and 15 Communing (that's Earthbind's att, right?). Also, make sure you have QZ/Rit Lord on the person casting EB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Does it makes any difference if the Ele's bomb and then back off from aggro range? I'm not sure how the damage counting aspect of newer aggro rules really work. Does the damage counter restart if the ele's back off for say 10 sec. after unloading their devestation.

There's [supposedly, this hasn't been tested extensively so take it with a grain of salt, if you will] a slighter chance of aggro breaking if the elementalists back off far enough after casting their nuke(s).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

It might be a derv ripping your enchant. Winds of Disenchantment is cast on self, not target. Do you use a cover enchantment for SF? Rending Aura will also rip an enchant if you hit the derv with a melee weapon (though probably not the case for your tank).
It might be a mes using Sig of Disenchantment.
It might be a sin using Expunge Enchantments.
SF isn't quite invincible, cover enchant should work.

Dervs there don't have WoD ^^. And Rending Aura will only de-enchant the tank if he hits the mob, which shouldn't happen anyways. Sig of Disenchantment isn't on any of the mobs' skill bars either, as isn't EE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugsy3861

I updated the build on the 1st page. I just finished it and it was my easiest run yet. Purge signet is the key to success. Everyone that has a slot free to use it (e/mo's, smiter, and ranger), should. The cave is soooo much easier. The luck factor has been taken out of the equation.

Good luck----Quarx Mooncloak

Ofc, Purge+QZ+Monk that is always on 0 energy = win! Tho, with Shadow Form you don't need to worry about that. The odd dismiss condition is enough (for Poisoned Heart-type stuff).

Also, I find it ironic that you said 'The luck factor has been taken out of the equation. Good luck.'

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansiac

I was also thinking that it was a Derv or Mesmer skill (it happens when those Mind Tormentors shows up, and they are Mesmers)
First thing i did after testing this build for the first time, was to bring a cover(i used Way of Perfection, because of the duration and recharge-time)
Still lost my SF.
I might have been too late to cover SF after recasting it(or simply forgor it).
Hard to find people who are willing to test, and they usually leave after first attempt(making me too frustrated to start over)
Ill try another test today and pay extra attention on casting the cover after i recast SF.

thx for reply.

I'd like to test it with you, if only to write down the skills mobs there use, so we can figure out what's stripping it from you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Quarx, Purge Signet is perfect for the smiter because they generally have zero energy and PSig will still remove everything at zero (without creating negative energy). With QZ up it's every 10 seconds. If others carry it, it can instantly wipe their energy out (-10 per hex or condition).

Not with a shadowtank ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

If all they're doing is staying back and waiting to kill off the dregs, that's probably OK. If they need more energy, you may consider restricting Purge Sig to the smiter and possibly the bonder.

Yup. Not on the bonder tho. Bonds drop > party can wipe. Bad idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Another choice, as mentioned earlier, is having the smiter spam the elite Sig of Removal. One hex and one condition removed every 3 seconds (with QZ up), and then the purge Sig thrown in every 10 seconds (with QZ up). That should be more than enough for your hex and condition. My only concern would be having the smiter spending so much time in the aggro zone.

Again, use a Shadowtank. D'oh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

Here's an idea...
Have the Ele's use Arcane Mimicry to copy 2 different elites.
During a defensive phase, they copy Sig of Removal from the smiter and spam that.
During an offensive phase, they copy Ele Attunement from the bonder and use that to help spam the crap out of Searing Flames. (They could also try adding Arcane Echo to really go nuts on SF)

Or they could just use another damage skill - like mark of rodgort. Fire Storm x 2 + Meteor Shower x 2 + Mark of Rodgort + Earthbind = win!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akane

The bonder can afford to carry a dormant elite that the Ele's can utilize.

He can afford to run anything. Hell, even Shadow Form for the sin. ^^

I just wish someone wanted dervishes on their team. *sniff*

hansiac · Dec 14, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Etrik, thx for posting. This makes me even more exited about SF-tanking.
If you want a pre-view of the skills and team-build im using, check this tread out: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...d.php?t=433298
Its currently a 7-man + a hero-build, but im sure a 6-man team is doable too.
Only thing i need, to keep SF up all the time, is another character with SF(so i can use Arcane Mimicry) Im using a A/Mo hero with SF and Succor(I put succor on myself and the eles, for extra energy, giving me +5 energy reg)
The tanking build has to be A/Ms (Arcane Echo and Arcane Mimicry is what makes this build keep SF up at all times) Im sure it will work when i get more practise(just have to focus on covering my SF everytime i re-cast it)
Im gonna test it right now with my hero, just to see how long i can hold this mob(in theory I should be able to tank for as long as it takes, without any support)
Feel free to PM me if you wanna help develop the team-build(its pretty nice though, check my link)

Dervish tanks are always welcome in my teams (Faithful Intervention, Vital Boon, Mystic Regeneration, Conviction, Avatar of Balthazar, Ancestors Visage, Spiritual Visage and LB Gaze) makes a good Tank with a couple of bonds on them(Vital Blessing and Balthazars Spirit should do the trick)
Mainly ment for tanking in Foundry, but should work in any of the maps(so should my SF-tank, Im not gonna try tanking in Stygian Veil as SF though, those Hungers would eat me alive)

My IGN`s are:
Hansiac Hellblade - Warrior
Lex Nightclad - Assassin
J A M A I L - Monk
Ra Balder - Paragon

Kazamafury · Dec 14, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Got to try it out DoA for the first time with a group lead by Messiah. We made several variations of the build for 8-man. Thanks for having me again.

Maybe it was just bad luck with aggro, but I am glad we managed to pass the first group atleast.

hansiac · Dec 15, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Figured it out yesterday.
My Shadow Form was never stripped.
I had 3 superior runes on my armor(making my health real low, 200-something)
When i got hit by Aura of Thorns and Staggering Force it seemed like I got my SF stripped, but it was just my low health making it seem like i got stripped.
So no cover-enchantment is needed for this build:
Skills:
Freigned Nautrallity, Deadly Paradox, Arcane Echo, Shadow Form, Arcane Mimicry, Caltrops and Lightbringer Gaze
Attributes:
16 Shadow Arts, 14 Deadly Arts
Armor:
I use Ancient Armor(any armor will do) with Radiant Insignias, Super Vigor, Super Shadow Arts, Super Deadly Arts and 2x Runes of Attunement
Weapon:
I use Kepkhets Refuge(energy+15,enchantments last 20% longer, halves skill recharge of spells 20% chance)

How it works:
To keep up SF continously, there are 10 steps before you repeat sequence:
1-Arcane Mimicry
2-Deadly Paradox
3-Shadow Form (from Arcane Mimicry)
4-Deadly Paradox
5-Arcane Echo
6-Shadow Form (from original Shadow Form)
7-Deadly Paradox
8-Shadow Form (from Arcane Echo)
9-Deadly Paradox
10-Shadow Form (from original Shadow Form)
11-Repeat steps 1-10

Team-build:
You will need 2 Assassin/Mesmers to use Arcane Mimicry, without having a fragile party-member have to run in and out of agro-zone(tested with a Mo/A,
not recomended)

2Monks with Prot Spirit, Condition/Hex Removal and some healing skills

1BiP

1SS

2SF Nukers

I dont think this build will work with 6 persons, maybe 7, but the idea was to make a strong team to complete the quests, not farm.

Strategy:
Both monks and BiP stays far out of Agro-zone.
Nukers and SS attacks when the tanks are holding all mobs and all agro,then carefully aproaches the tanks(without agroing anything)cast GoS,MS,SF,GG,SS at closest target, and falls back back to safety(if you get hexed or hit, cancel whatever spell you where casting, and
try to loose aggro. Repeat until mobs are dead.

Good luck and enjoy the build!

bugsy3861 · Dec 15, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

The SF looks pretty good but the thing is that I am always bonded up to do damage so that the rest of my team stays away almost all the time. The step in for a purge every now and again but don't ever really get close to the action....except to clean up 1 or 2 schmo torments who refuse to die. The cave is idiot proof now. As for changing the signet to purge conditions.... go for it with ranger and eles, but energy management shouldn't be much of a problem for them either as long as everyone calls before they cast and the rest of the team speaks the same language and knows how to read. I feel confident that the possibilities of failure now are reduced to a minimum and if you dont believe me, just whisper me. I'll be more than happy to show you, then you (you= anyone) can show me the improvements that you think can be done or another build that would work better. This isn't just for farming, I do the mission as well. As long as the backup has half an idea of what to do its a fairly simple run.

Quarx

hansiac · Dec 15, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

I see your point Quarx, I didnt mean that Spirit Bonder is based on luck, just that its harder then with the SF, to have full aggro-controll.
Spirit Bonder is a great idea and works well.
Just completed Gloom, btw, with Dual-SF and a competent team.
Tanking have neer been easier.
We had a couple of "hairy-moments", but after getting comfortable with the build,
it was a real bliss (The Darkness` where real easy to control and to kill fast)
We skipped the usage of Recall on Nukers and SS, because it was just too complicated to use)
We focused on spike-nuking and aggro-balling, and worked out great.
Recomended to try!
Even Assassins can join

ps! changed my Assassin build to equip Caltrops(thx for the good idea Jin), making us able to cripple and get a safer agro-control,
and we skip`d bonds on Tanks(they are fine with a Prot Spirit and some healing every once and awhile)

Etrik · Dec 15, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

I need to level up my monk

Else I'll never get a group in DoA on my derv/paranerf..

Solarii · Dec 16, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

As far as condition removal, a few of us were running this build earlier with the ranger uding martyr and mending touch and a few other players with condition removal. It made the tanking a bit easier on the monk. We got past teh cave and one tank err7 on us then never got another tank to complete the cave. Martyr really seemed to help though

Our ele's were all running SF/MS though and aggro management was a real pain.

scrinner · Dec 16, 2006, 09:19 PM // 21:19

For the cave, where should the tank be. At the mouth of the cave? Maps? Anything? we keep failing at the cave because of conditions or because of aggro breaks. So yeah.. where should the tank be

Detraya fullvear · Dec 17, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

okay, i have done this several times, so im going to thow in my two cents.

The Start.

Fairly easy, just make sure you get purged often, i suggest having a purge on the healer and the smiter, and alternate em. if you get dazed at the wrong time, its gg.

The Cave.

A pain in the butt, easily the hardest part in the run. have the tank stand in the mouth of the cave, and have people run up, purge him, and run back. don't have the eles do ANYTHING until everything is their, and 3/4ths of them are dead. as long as the purges on time, this area is COMPLETELY dependent on the tank. a good tank will make it 3/4ths of the times, a crappy will only make it 1/4ths of the time. just remember, the smites will kill the majority of them, and the tank can handle as many as they throw at him, as long as he is purged often enough to catch the daze.

The greater Darkness + the Darknesses.

very hard. they use fingers of chaos, which makes your tanks job a living poop. however, we eventually figured out a method of doing it. Drop all enchantments except blessed aura, vital, baltz, and essence bond off the tank. count down, preferably in vent or ts, and have the tank cast spell breaker followed by prot spirit, and while he is doing this, have everyone cast the other enchants on him. these enchants will cover them, long enough for fingers of chaos to run out and your vital enchants not to be removed. move in immediately and nuke. be prepared to run at any moment in this. after the first 3 drop, 5 more will spawn. RUN. get out of agro range. they will spread out. when their spread, do the same you did on the greater darkness and his cronies on each one. when one dies, earth tormentors will spawn, and everyone but the tank should high-tail it out of their. he should be able to stay their, and maintain agro. once all enemies have fallen back on the tank, kill the earth tormentors and repeat, until you pick up your gems

.

i hope this helps, gl out thier

scrinner · Dec 17, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

So You suggest Blessed Aura, Vital (If Dp), Essence, Then prot and spellbreaker followed by succor, mending, watchful, retribution, holy wrath?

Btw nice meeting you again detraya

Also for the cave we have two problems, one is fixed now. I either die (im the tank) due to conditions which we have fixed now. The other problem is... the aggro breaks. Problem is im not sure why it happens. I know im not moving, and the other people are either by the warden or on the edge of my bubble. Any tips ?

Maxiemonster · Dec 17, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

The Shadow Form build seems solid, but you shouldn't take two tanks. Take a Glyph of Renewal nuker instead of that second Shadow Form tank, and make the tank Mimicry the Glyph. Seems alot more effective to me.